6 comments on “Suggested Reading: Of the in-game store, pay-to-win, statistics, weapons, legendaries, nostalgia, and warlock utility

  1. To respond to your previous post (I can move this there if you’d prefer)…

    “Now consider the Lesser Charms. If you purchase Lesser Charms, you’re paying money to skip a part of the game. Instead of creating something enjoyable that people want and charging them for it, they’ve created something that people don’t want and then are charging to skip it. Despicable.”

    That’s not analyzing the situation correctly – the introduction of Lesser Charms have nothing to do with them charging for it.

    See, back in Cataclysm, some people complained there wasn’t anything to do outside of LFR. Most Heroic Raiders disagreed, they were happy simply raiding and then doing PvP or whatever they wanted if they had extra time. These other people, however, weren’t interested in Heroic Raids (or even normal raids) so there really wasn’t anything else for them to do.

    Thus, in MoP, Blizzard gutted Valor from raids – you used to get 80%+ of the valor cap from clearing a raid of 7-8 bosses in Firelands and Dragon Soul. This was meant to give people stuff to do outside of raids or something. As an additional thing for people to do, Blizzard added in Lesser Charms to make people do dailies.

    Both of these changes were unpopular with heroic raiders in general (and probably all raiders in general) – these people were already dedicating time each week and didn’t want extra chores to do. But for the people only doing LFR and clearing the entire “raid” the first week a section was open, it gave them busywork to keep them in-game.

    You’ll note that Blizzard already lowered the Charm requirement from 90 to 50. And Heroic Scenarios were added to be an excellent source of valor. But the Charm requirement still means a player with 13/13H on farm needs to do 25 dailies each week – which really sucks because it’s trivial, boring, menial content (don’t get me wrong – I actually generally enjoy dailies and grinding rep. I do *not* enjoy doing the same dailies nearly a year later because I need Charms).

    Now Blizzard is (potentially) offering an option to simply pay some money to skip some boring chores – chores that only exist because of people who only do dungeons and LFR.

    I hate having to valor cap with over 50% of it coming from outside raids. I hate having to do 25 dailies a week. But I understand Blizzard put it in to try to retain players at a much lower level – to give them a weekly grind since otherwise they’d just do LFR each week in a handful of hours and be done (with zero progression involved and no chance of failure).

    Now, if Blizzard introduces a feature that seems aimed at being skipped with something bought from the store, I will be the first to decry it and yell at Blizzard. But that’s not why Charms were introduced. They existed long before the in-game store existed as a concept.

    • That was well put. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

      First, I’m not really thinking about business decisions. I’m thinking about how the game applies to me (mostly). To me, it seems like they’re introducing a way for people to pay to skip content that many find boring rather than finding a solution to the boring content. Personally, I’ve enjoyed all the content. I finished all the zones, have done every dungeon and scenario, and have hit exalted with all the reputations except Anglers and Order of the Cloud Serpent.

      However, I just don’t like feeling the need to grind out content. The reputation/dailies, for example, should be balanced in such a way that there are enough quests so that they’re different most days, they don’t get boring, and you hit exalted in a reasonable amount of time. Most of the reps this expansion have satisfied that to me.

      I’ve done all the scenarios once. I don’t really care for them. This might be because I’m healer, but I can’t pinpoint what I dislike. Regardless, I think they’re a great addition to the game, but I just don’t run them. That’s fine. But I feel a compulsion to run do my dailies to get my charms. Now I’m doing dailies for reputations that I don’t even need just to try to get charms. I would prefer Blizzard find a solution that within the game mechanics rather than charge me money for it.

  2. “To me, it seems like they’re introducing a way for people to pay to skip content that many find boring rather than finding a solution to the boring content. Personally, I’ve enjoyed all the content. I finished all the zones, have done every dungeon and scenario, and have hit exalted with all the reputations except Anglers and Order of the Cloud Serpent.”

    They’re trying stuff like the Barrens event and apparently new stuff on the Timeless Isle – but in general, they don’t view needing to grind Charms as a problem needing a solution. If that were the case, they could easily reduce the Charms needed or make it a simple quest each week and remove Charms from the game. They generally *want* people to be “out in the world” and doing dailies.

    Part of the problem is that I did every dungeon, scenario, and reputation within the first two months of the expansion because it was required for raiders (well, not Anglers and Cloud Serpent, strictly speaking). I had a stockpile of over 1000 Charms. But that eventually got used and now I need to do dailies for factions I’ve been exalted with for half a year or more. For people in my situation, the dailies really suck. For someone in your situation, you still have rep left to grind and a goal besides “Get more Charms.”

    “Most of the reps this expansion have satisfied that to me.”

    Golden Lotus was awful – keep in mind that originally there was no double rep after hitting Revered. And 14+ quests a day plus 9 Klaxxi quests plus 4-5 August Celestials plus 5 Shado-Pan plus Tillers/Anglers/Cloud Serpent was incredibly draining for the first part of the expansion. But Valor Gear was gated behind the reps (along with “free” 489 items at exalted for GL and Klaxxi) so they had to be done.

    “I’ve done all the scenarios once. I don’t really care for them.”

    Have you done the heroic scenarios? I find them generally more enjoyable (and tougher) than heroic dungeons.

    “I would prefer Blizzard find a solution that within the game mechanics rather than charge me money for it.”

    Such as?

    They’re trying the Timeless Isle – but unless the Charm acquisition rate is as high or higher than “old” content, people will still do the old content because it’s faster. This leaves Blizzard in a tricky situation.

    • “They generally *want* people to be “out in the world” and doing dailies.” I understand that, and keep in mind that I’m only mentioning what problems I have. If I had great solutions, I’d probably be working for Blizzard. I like people being in the world as well. In fact, I read all quest text and do zones in order, finishing zones before even touching heroics to start gearing. My raiding guild wasn’t terribly pleased with me, because I took a long time to be ready. However, I like seeing the story unfold “correctly.”

      I liked the reputations that had unlockable non-repeatable quests. The 5.1 and 5.2 reputation grinds were handled better. I liked the Shado-pan having different hubs. The Klaxxi seemed too long, and Golden Lotus was definitely too long. Instead of stacking the hubs, I would have preferred if they introduced new hubs but gave you a random one per day.

      I actually haven’t done heroic scenarios, no. For the most part, I like seeing the content for the story and pushing raid progression. I’ve already seen the story of the heroic scenarios (in normal). I freely admit that I still need to try them out just to see what they’re like. I haven’t tried Challenge Modes either.

      I don’t know anything about the Timeless Isle. I avoid spoilers that could have to do with story reveals. All I know about it is that it’s new area/hub. (And something about the world bosses there, but I tried to look away as soon as I started reading it.)

      I guess I just feel like WoW is a game that I really enjoy, but I do other things too. I like to go biking, I lift weights five days per week, I go rock climbing, I read, I like watching plays, and I even play other games. On raid nights, I rush home to be able to raid at 7, and I don’t have free time before that. Two nights are raid nights. Doing LFR usually takes a whole night. If were more progressed I might not need it, but I still need gear, so I do all four wings usually. Another night is odd jobs like Battlefield Barrens, world bosses, and charms. That’s four out of seven nights I have to spend in a game when what I really just want to do is raid. Yes, paying for charms would solve part of that, but the problem is that there’s a part of the game that isn’t enjoyable. I don’t want to pay extra to skip something boring. I don’t want the boring. Movies cut scenes that don’t fit. Books do as well. MMOs introduce as many stupid grinds as they can, despite the fact that since I want to raid, I’d be paying my monthly fee regardless. Console games do it too! Fight a boss, then fight a recolored boss in the same level backwards! I’m not trying to optimize by gamelength per dollar. I want quality.

  3. ” I understand that, and keep in mind that I’m only mentioning what problems I have. If I had great solutions, I’d probably be working for Blizzard.”

    Fair enough. More just pointing out that there aren’t incredibly easy and obvious solutions to this issue – unlike other issues people have.

    “I liked the reputations that had unlockable non-repeatable quests. The 5.1 and 5.2 reputation grinds were handled better. The Klaxxi seemed too long, and Golden Lotus was definitely too long.”

    I really liked the 5.1 quests, yeah.

    Surprised you thought Klaxxi was too long – you got a ton of rep simply from leveling.

    “I actually haven’t done heroic scenarios, no. For the most part, I like seeing the content for the story and pushing raid progression. I’ve already seen the story of the heroic scenarios (in normal). I freely admit that I still need to try them out just to see what they’re like. I haven’t tried Challenge Modes either.”

    Well, heroic scenarios give the best valor in the game (like 15 valor per minute for the first one a day and still like 10 valor per minute after that) and have a chance to drop 516 gear – so unless you’re in full 522+ gear you can get major upgrades from them.

    I also find them substantially more interesting than heroic dungeons because they actually have mechanics that matter – they feel more like raiding than dungeons or LFR!

    “I don’t know anything about the Timeless Isle. I avoid spoilers that could have to do with story reveals. All I know about it is that it’s new area/hub. (And something about the world bosses there, but I tried to look away as soon as I started reading it.)”

    Stuff you should know:

    World boss will require that you have the legendary cloak.

    The Isle is supposed to be more like Battlefield: Barrens – less daily quest hubs, more constant world events.

    “I guess I just feel like WoW is a game that I really enjoy, but I do other things too. I like to go biking, I lift weights five days per week, I go rock climbing, I read, I like watching plays, and I even play other games.”

    You realize that I play less than you do? :)

    I play about 10-11 hours a week on two nights of raiding and I’m 11/13H, working on the second transition for Heroic Lei Shen. If you’d like some suggestions on time management in WoW and getting the most bang for your buck I’d be happy to try to help. Free up more time for that other stuff.

    “Yes, paying for charms would solve part of that, but the problem is that there’s a part of the game that isn’t enjoyable. I don’t want to pay extra to skip something boring. I don’t want the boring.”

    Other people DO want the boring. They complained about not having stuff to do outside of LFR – they like the idea of being able to do dailies for extra shots at loot. I kind of wonder what would happen if the Elder Charms were limited to LFR – might be interesting.

    I kind of think normal and heroic raiders were casualties – Blizzard felt like they had to made valor harder to get and introduce a new weekly grind because people could AFK though LFR in a few hours a week and proclaim themselves done – so Blizzard gave them more to do to be in the world and play more per week.

    But normal and heroic raiders didn’t need that extra busywork – and I suspect many LFR heroes don’t bother even valor capping or getting 50 Charms per week.

  4. Pingback: Discussion with Balkoth | Kor'kron 501st

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